Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:10 Hello, Georgia. And how I, to our writing audience, I hope your writing is going swimmingly.
Speaker 2 00:00:15 How are you going clear? I'm
Speaker 1 00:00:17 Good. A bit tired. I've had a couple of nights, one night rereading don't make a fuss. It's only the Claremont serial killer, which enraged me and makes me want to go out there and burn certain telecom companies down to the ground. So that kept me up at night. And then last night I had a dog vomiting incident. So
Speaker 2 00:00:36 Do tell Claire,
Speaker 1 00:00:40 Which is a whippet. And so she doesn't make a noise unless she wants to. So she was kind of stomping around last night. And then I was like, I'm too tired. I don't want to get up. And then I heard this slight retching noise and I went and she'd vomited all over the carpet and it was 1 45. And it was one of those times where you think you have good ideas. And I thought it was a good idea to grab a soup spoon and to clean up the vomit with a soup spoon. But of course, as I moved the soup spoon past my face to put it in the bucket at 1 45, then I was slightly tired. How about you? You haven't had breakfast yet. How are you going?
Speaker 2 00:01:29 I'm not going to have breakfast now. I'll tell you that much for free. So clear what's coming up today.
Speaker 1 00:01:37 Today. We're going to talk to Olivia Lanchester, who's the CEO of the Australian society of authors. And she's just a little, really lovely person with lots of good information to share venue and emerging. But first I thought we were going to discuss writing groups and I thought you might have had a chat to some people from our, how to be an author Facebook group.
Speaker 2 00:01:57 That's right. I actually put the question up on the group. What do you gain from being in a writer's group? And there was so many responses which suggests a lot of people in writing
Speaker 1 00:02:07 And what, what kinds of key common themes that came out?
Speaker 2 00:02:11 Well, should I start with the positives? Yeah, go
Speaker 1 00:02:13 For it.
Speaker 2 00:02:14 Kinship. So common love of writing that writerly advice could be offered and also taken artistic support cake guacamole, and also a motivation to keep going and also being accountable to something, some people beyond yourself, so that there was a reason for developing your own work. And I think the word that was used the most often was community. There was one contributor who said that she had ADHD and that it was a model that she'd found that actually ensured. She didn't only just write stuff, but that she then edited as well. And she was absolutely delighted with that outcome. And Maria said that stories happen in conversation too. So it's also maybe the place where ideas begin and you might get something quite serendipitous or unexpected out of just being in that state of mind, amongst a group of like-minded people, Sasha wisely talked about a group she had for a while.
Speaker 2 00:03:24 It was for writers who wanted to get self published and they were all tracking along together. So they would share all their information together about what they were discovering, tips and tricks, and also then discussing their marketing materials with each other and things like that. And it sounded like a really supportive group to get to where they each needed to go to self publication. There were a few negatives, the words occasional axed were used, which I guess is the same with any community. And sometimes writing groups that contained overly sensitive writers could kind of frustrate the process. One writer seemed rather burnt because she'd had a recent experience in which she was getting quite passive aggressive or sarcastic responses when she was posing questions to her group online with things like just Google it, which she was fully over and left. So I think it's also really that thing of finding like-minded people. One of the, one of the people who responded had been in the same group for 21 years. Mm.
Speaker 1 00:04:32 And I love this idea because publishing is competitive and obviously some people are going to be really successful and some people are going to be less successful depending on how you define success. So I love this idea of building up a group of people that, um, have your back, that you can work with over time and that you're sharing the journey, the great highs and the lows as well.
Speaker 2 00:04:57 Absolutely. And I think also that what you learned from editing the work of others, being a good listener and receiving critiques is also a really nice sort of training ground for what happens when you enter into a formal editorial process down the track.
Speaker 1 00:05:14 Um, well we learned that the other day with the pitch session as well, like getting authors to pitch each other's work can be a really positive thing to do so that you understand what you're not expressing perhaps the best way possible. And also getting someone else's perspective on the story of your book is really important, too. Great. Thanks for that, Georgia. Shall we have a chat to Olivia now?
Speaker 2 00:05:41 Olivia Lanchester is the Australian society of authors, CEO and company secretary. Olivia's worked as a senior intellectual property lawyer in private practice and as a freelance editor prior to becoming CEO, she ran the ASSP contract assessment
Speaker 1 00:05:56 Service and has reviewed hundreds of publishing contracts during her time with the ASA. Welcome to,
Speaker 3 00:06:02 Yeah. Thank you very much, Georgia. I'm so delighted to be here. I've been looking forward to speaking with you,
Speaker 1 00:06:09 Had you on our books for quite a while. And we have done something a little bit mean in that we went to three Western Australian ASA members and we surveyed them. And one of those people that we surveyed was Zoe Duluth, who is the author of the night village. And she says the Australian society of authors advocates for authors and shares a huge amount of information on their website that demystifies publishing and the whole process of turning a draft into a book writing is creative, but publishing is a business and a competitive one at that understanding as much as you can about the business side of publishing, we'll help you navigate the industry and understand where you fit in the bigger picture and the ASA exists to help you do just that. Is that why you think it's important for all writers in Australia to be a member of your organization?
Speaker 3 00:07:00 Absolutely. And frame memberships as Zoe. I mean, she has summed that up and said it better than I could say myself. Thank you. Sorry. I think that it's important for those reasons. It is a business. You do have to have access to, um, information and advice. And that's one of the big things that the ASA offers for sure. Um, advice and resources and information, but also I think there is that aspect as well of community and connection to a writing community. I think it's really important for any writer, whether established or aspiring to be connected with other writers. We're told that all the time. And one of the most fundamental reasons to be a member is maybe something not so much mentioned there, which is, um, the advocacy work that the ASA does. I think that's really important because there has to be a national body that speaks for authors, both to industry, but also to government.
Speaker 3 00:08:07 Uh, and your listeners may or may not know that the ASA was instrumental in, um, bringing in lending rights and we're still campaigning now. So we are agitating for PLR and ELR to be expanded, to cover digital formats, audio books, and eBooks, because at the moment, PLR ELR is only payable on print books and those mess campaigns make a big impact on author earnings. So they're actually vitally important. You've got all this scattered all over the country as small businesses. There has to be an organization that brings those voices together and amplifies them. And I'll just mention one more thing because it's very current, there are proposed changes to the copyright act. Now that I believe would be very adverse to authors. And so the ASA is preparing a submission and that's during this month, uh, there was in the wake of COVID, there was a parliamentary inquiry that was conducted into the creative and cultural industries and institutions. And we made a really major submission on all the issues affecting authors and the realities of authors lives.
Speaker 2 00:09:22 Do you keep your members apprised of these developments because they sound really critical to what goes on in the professional lives of Australia north?
Speaker 3 00:09:32 Yeah, we do Georgia, um, through our newsletter is the main source of communication with our members and also on social media, but the newsletter goes out every fortnight. And in fact, even if you're not a member of the ASA, you can subscribe for free and get the newsletter every second Wednesday.
Speaker 1 00:09:50 And I hear you even give away a book in every email newsletter, Christy Ben had a list of things that she said the ASA did for her, but, um, she also mentioned the book prize.
Speaker 3 00:10:00 Yeah, it's so nice. Publishes a generous in that way and do facilitate the book giveaway, which is extremely popular.
Speaker 1 00:10:07 You mentioned ELR and PLR. And I know that we hadn't got that down to discuss today, but for new and emerging writers who have no idea what they are, how do you describe those for them?
Speaker 3 00:10:19 Yeah. Lending rights. PLR is the public lending, right? And Eli's the educational lending, right? And lending rights is a payment made by the federal government annually to creators, actually to publishers as well, to authors and publishers and illustrators. And it's a payment in recognition of the fact that if your books are held in libraries, public libraries and school, university libraries, then there is a loss of royalties. It's a compensation for that loss of royalties, because if your books are freely available to the community, that's a wonderful thing, but, um, it will affect sales. So it's an annual payment and it's actually a vital component of author earnings. We've been doing some research for that campaign. And one of the things to my surprise we have found is that paler Isla can comprise as much as 30% of an author earnings in a given year. And that might go up and down, depending whether it's a year that you get a big advance or you bring out a book or, but it is a vital component of the overall earnings of an author. So we're putting a lot of attention on our digital lending rights campaign at the moment, because we want to future proof, those schemes.
Speaker 1 00:11:41 Yeah. And again, Christie Ben, who's the author of beneath the tree. She actually said how much she appreciated the ASA giving attention to the rights of authors and the rates of pay and making sure that they incomes were protected. Can you take us through the, what the ASA rates of pay are and what they mean for authors as well?
Speaker 3 00:12:03 Yeah, certainly. So we provide minimum rates of pay as recommendations on our website. Um, they cover freelance writing book, illustration rates for comics, um, public appearances, school appearances poetry. And we are working on rates for judging of literary prizes. Uh, and the purpose of having those rates is really to give particularly new and emerging authors, a benchmark, a place to start. Um, and they're also, you know, you can point, it's so hard negotiating rates of pay. You can point to this external source and say, well, this is what, you know, these are the ASA recommended rates, obviously they're variable. And the rights that you can reasonably achieve will depend on your profile and your experience as an author. And there will definitely be some authors who can do better. But, um, what we have seen particularly over the last decade is, and I think this is connected with the fact that literature generally has had declining government funding, a real squeeze on authors.
Speaker 3 00:13:14 So if you, it's not reasonable to be expected to do events and creative writing workshops for exposure. You actually, as a creator, if you're going to build a business, you have to value your time. It's what you've got. So you have to monetize your time, look at what you're doing and be brave enough to ask, to be paid fairly. And, um, obviously the exception to that is the publicity that you do on the launch of your book. That's part of your obligations under your publishing contract. And it obviously is in author's interest to get out there and, you know, build the momentum. Um, but the rights is one of the highest clicked on bits about website. And I think it's just a good starting point.
Speaker 1 00:14:00 Yeah. Hear that all the time. Actually on behalf of that authors, we find it useful because we get it all the time, you know, such and such would do this for free. And we say, well, we advise our writers not to do it for free because the whole community needs to be able to be recompensed for the efforts that they put in. So, um, we find it extremely useful. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:14:21 And I think if people knew how little authors earn, they would be less inclined to ask authors to subsidize their event. Actually, I think that people don't quite realize, um, how tough it can be for authors.
Speaker 2 00:14:38 Do you get writers contacting you with issues that are coming up for them? Are there, what are some of the ones that spring to mind? I guess there are many,
Speaker 3 00:14:48 There are many, we get the full range of issues at the ASA. I think probably one of the most, um, common is just the challenge of getting published in the first place that comes up all the time. And we know that the publishing industry is pretty opaque if you are standing outside of it. So we aim to demystify the process and help you navigate that publishing process. You definitely need to do research before you begin, before you start sending out your manuscript on submission. Um, so the challenge of being published that is definitely one of the big ones. The other one, I think is the challenge of building a business and earning a living. So we have as part of our professional development program sessions that are designed to help you set up as a sole trader, we have an accountant come and talk to authors each year so that they understand, um, the money side of the business, which is so important.
Speaker 3 00:15:53 Uh, and also how to optimize your publishing contracts. I think that is very important. I am amazed at the number of authors who signed their publishing contract and they've barely read it and I get it. It's because they're so excited. It's so wonderful to be offered a contract, but you really have to understand it and you have, and the more you go on, the more you need, I think to really understand it and to understand the scope of it and to be quite strategic about it whilst of course, remaining polite and professional. Um, and then I think another issue that comes up a lot is just the challenge of working in isolation. So rice has need a tribe. And I think that this might be something that you have spoken about on your podcast before. And I know Charlotte wood has spoken about this on her podcast that you need to connect with other writers and be a part of a writers group.
Speaker 3 00:16:55 It is the way that you learn how to avoid mistakes. And it is also wonderful, moral and emotional support as well through the turbulent journey. Um, another issue that I think that I'm really interested in at the moment, because I think it's this growing issue is the challenge of building and maintaining a public persona as an author. You know, it's really hard to be online, but you have to do it as an author. You have to have professional photos, you have to have a website, you have to be on social media. Not everyone is comfortable on social media. I hate it myself. So I have huge sympathy for authors who have to put themselves out there in that way. I mean, when you think back years ago, publishers really managed fan correspondence and Sheffield and authors from that. And now we're living in times where authors not only have to directly engage with readers, but that is part of the marketing campaign.
Speaker 3 00:18:03 Particularly if you choose to go down the path of self publishing. So, I mean, I'd be interested to hear from you, Claire and Georgia, if you have used on this, because, um, it is this new-ish source of like a new time consuming task that can be quite invasive. And we can see that occasionally authors do cop a bit of abuse online. I think that is disproportionately borne by women and by people of color, I think they have a disproportionate, um, abuse amount of abuse. So, um, I think that that is an emerging kind of real challenge because we all know that having a positive public image is so favorable for commercial success. Um, but something that is a TA a new task for authors to manage,
Speaker 1 00:18:55 I advise authors to set aside time for it and I'd advise them first to be community members. So I support other people first as a way of getting comfortable in the space. So if you're commenting on other people's posts in an authentic way, it's a nice way to start getting comfortable. And I also advise them to really think through the kinds of posts they're going to post send, try and prepare some of it in advance, because I think that that gives you a sense of control rather than jumping online and going down the rabbit hole. And I think it's really interesting that you mentioned a sense of community because that's exactly what we're really trying to do in, in, at Fremantle press, particularly for Western Australian writers. And just this morning, we had a podcast with Maria Papus who won the Hungerford a few years back. And she was saying, she wished that while she was writing before she was published, that she'd done more to engage with the networks and the community and the colleagues that she had here in writing. So I think, you know, becoming a member of the ASA is a really wonderful way early on to start making those connections and having a sense of community helps you as a rider build resilience. I think because you feel like there are colleagues that have your back. All right.
Speaker 2 00:20:14 I agree with all of that. I was wondering while you were talking, Olivia, when you talk about your professional development sessions, are they online's that writers from all over Australia can attend?
Speaker 3 00:20:25 Yes, they are. They're all online now. Um, and actually one of the benefits of COVID is that it forced us to see we had already gone digital, and then that was a no brainer to stay that way permanently it's much better. So that in wherever you live, you can access the professional development sessions. Um, I'm really aware of the very strong community in WUA of writers. And I think that is brilliantly fostered by WEA writing the writer center. I think he's so strong at connecting w a creators. Uh, and, and, and just on that point on community as well, when you mentioned Claire, I think authors are very supportive of each other online, very, very generous, and we'll have each other's back and you see that all the time. So I think if you are a new author to connect with the community will help you as well.
Speaker 3 00:21:25 See what other people do well, and then you can emulate that. And in fact, with social media on the marketing side, I think if you see someone who's really successful and you watch, what do they post, how often do they post and then emulate those patterns? It's a really good way of learning, um, and the author community and the publishing community too. Actually, it's very convivial there. You know, there's a really lovely supportiveness generally, which when I first came into the ASA, it was one of the things that struck me or this community is very generous and always seems to have time for each other, which is lovely. But
Speaker 2 00:22:05 Out of me wonders if that's why people expect writers to do things for free, because they think everyone's just here because they love books and stories. And, and that kind of goes with this sense of, um, are you, you'll just do it because you love it, but I think the points that you were making about, um, it also being a really tough, uh, career to, to nurture and develop are also really pertinent. And yeah,
Speaker 1 00:22:29 I mean, let's mention COVID because that was mentioned as well, that the ASA was so on top of COVID in the sense of training writers to do online events, I'd love to hear a bit more about what your strategy was with that and what you did.
Speaker 3 00:22:46 We really try to, first of all, keep authors informed, particularly in the early days, you might remember there was all of that wondering how sole traders would be supported. And then we had job keeper and job seeker announced. And so we participated in the round tables. And unfortunately, despite there being a lot of government stimulus, it was economic policy made on the run. We were in the middle of a national crisis. So I don't think it was at all fit for purpose for authors and the way that creators earn a very lumpy income. But anyway, we tried to share information about what government support there was available, and we do try and help with the pivot to digital because all of the school appearances instantly went digital. And my understanding is that that continues to a degree. So authors are back in schools, but they're also still doing zoom appearances.
Speaker 3 00:23:43 And similarly with libraries, um, we talked to Alia, the library association about authors online. It was called and they had a part of their website that was devoted to listing authors who were available for online appearances. One of the biggest impacts, I think for an author from COVID was the fact that you are used to earning a certain amount of money from appearances at festivals and schools and libraries, and all of a sudden that just went to zero. So there was so much uncertainty about when that would return. I think it's been really tough on authors, and I think there is a tiny disconnect at the moment because we have had last year and the year before, two years of really strong book sales, the market is up, which is wonderful news. Brilliant. Everyone is so happy that we seem to be in this reading when I sense, however, at the same time, it particularly if you were a debut author or an new unknown author, discoverability was so hard the way you would normally promote your book is to be out there, flogging it.
Speaker 3 00:24:55 You couldn't do that online. Doesn't have the same. Cut-through the shift to online shopping is not good for new and unknown authors, because if you are shopping online, which so many of the Steed during COVID, you don't have the benefit of the hand selling of booksellers, you, uh, um, not searched for, because you're not known. And those algorithms online favor, strong sales conversions. So the trusted favorites, the best sellers, the brand authors. So I think what has been really hard is that whilst the publishing industry has been doing really well, which is wonderful. And some others have been doing really well and have had a lift in their backlist sales, which is great there for the new authors. I think it's been a really hard couple of years. Did your membership rise a lot during that time? Yes, it did Georgia. I mean, and to my delight, because we were obviously really concerned, it's a discretionary spend to be part of the ASA, but, um, that we have had a growth in membership of around 11% growth and that is just continuing.
Speaker 3 00:26:13 And the ISA, um, membership has been growing now for five years, quite strongly. And I hope it's because people are seeing value for membership and that they are willing to stay on. Um, we have also, I think a cohort of wonderfully supportive, particularly older authors who have been with the ASA for a long time. And for then what they say to us is where there, because you're the closest we have to a union. And it really ties in with a lot of the advocacy stuff that I was mentioning earlier. And for new authors, I think we are, um, of value for information and advice. You know, that access, which is really hard when you're just starting out. So fingers crossed, you know, it's still, it continues to grow.
Speaker 2 00:27:08 Could you tell us how much it costs to become a member?
Speaker 3 00:27:12 Certainly it's $208 for full membership and it's $155 for an associate member. And that is someone who is not yet published, but interested, aspiring.
Speaker 2 00:27:24 And what constitutes published in that regard, does that include self
Speaker 3 00:27:27 Published? It does. It includes self published. And it also includes if you've been widely published, for example, in newspapers, if you've published, um, short stories. So it's not just that you have to have a book published, you can also have other, um, writing published and that will qualify.
Speaker 1 00:27:45 So what would you advise? Somebody who's just starting out.
Speaker 3 00:27:50 Look, if you're just starting out, I would have this as a top tip, take your time. We see all the time authors who are exhausted by the long and arduous process of writing their manuscripts and they get to the end and then they just send their manuscript out on multiple submission, a bit of a scatter gun approach because they want to publish tomorrow. And because we see that all the time, I would say, stop, take a breath. Are you ready? He's ready for submission. Publishing tends to be a one bite at the cherry kind of game. So you want to make sure that, you know, it's a publishable standard. It's not enough for your mom and your best friends to say, it's great. You need someone who is objective someone who has some publishing experience. You might need to pay for an assessment if you are inexperienced, if you don't have any contexts already within the publishing industry.
Speaker 3 00:28:52 Um, and then if you are ready, think strategically about where does my book sit and which publisher is right for this title and Polish your submission, take the time, get it looking great. And then, um, send it off. And if you do get an offer of publication, rage contract, think about it, understand it. If you don't understand it, talk to your publisher, they will explain it to you. You can talk to the ASA, we can give you some advice as well. So treat your writing as a business. It is like any other business you need to do your research. And another top tip that I have is to do with rejections, because I think this is one of the hardest aspects of publishing. There's not a writer alive that hasn't faced it. So you are going to in all likelihood, face rejection. And what I would say is to try to understand, can you learn from it?
Speaker 3 00:29:56 Is there any constructive criticism, which unfortunately, sometimes there isn't, but if there is, can you learn from it? What do you need to do? Um, and I, I read this lovely story on social media, where an author was saying that she gives her self rewards for so many rejections. So, you know, once she, I can't remember who it was, but once she got to sort of five rejections, she was rewarded with a dinner out and you know, that's beautiful. It's reward for trying, it's you putting yourself out there? It's a really hard thing to do. The reality is that a rejection doesn't always mean that the quality of your work is not there. So do what you can to keep yourself Boyd. Because if you are serious about being a writer, you really do need persistence and determination and patience. And so they would be my top tips apart from the very obvious one, which is read widely in your genre. And one of the first questions we see publishers ask authors all the time is okay. And so what are some comparative titles? And you need to know, this is where my book feels that this is where it would say it's in the bookshop. You need to kind of know what works and reading. Won't only improve your skills and, you know, feed you creatively, but it will also help, you know, this is what publishers are looking for, of course, with your own originality stamped across it.
Speaker 2 00:31:26 It sounds to me very much like you're an organization that is balancing that creative balancing and nurturing that creative side with the business side together. And I really commend you for that. And I think Australian north is, uh, certainly much better off having the AI ASA there.
Speaker 1 00:31:45 How does a writer join the ASA?
Speaker 3 00:31:49 You can join online, just go to our website, dot org, or you can join over the phone, give us a call for all information about our services and what we offer and what we do. The website is a really good source of general information. Even if you're not a member or don't wish to become a member, we've got FAQ's and resources that are still available to you. So you can go to our website. If you want to know more Clare,
Speaker 1 00:32:22 It sounds good. And we'll make sure that the websites in the show notes as well. So you can always pop into the show notes and grab it there. So it's been so nice to have a chat to you.
Speaker 3 00:32:32 I'm very grateful. You've given me a big promotional soapbox. So
Speaker 1 00:32:38 Before go, can we just end it with maybe just a little information from you, Olivia about why you do what you do?
Speaker 3 00:32:47 I do it definitely because it's been so rewarding. It's the contact with the members. There has been the best part of my job by far. I am not a writer, but I am a very enthusiastic reader. I think everyone who works at the ASA shares the same passion for books. I mean, I'm talking your language. This is very common across everyone who works in publishing. There is that shared, I think passion and enthusiasm for writing books, for the role that they play. And the longer I've been at the ASA, the more I really tip my hat to authors, you know, they often work in their leisure time on the weekends. They often hold down other jobs that I am in all of them all. So that's why I do what I do. It's incredibly interesting. And it's a very job and I really love it.
Speaker 1 00:33:40 Thank
Speaker 2 00:33:40 You so much, Olivia. Thanks, Olivia. Thanks
Speaker 3 00:33:43 For having me.
Speaker 1 00:33:44 That was lovely talking to Olivia. What were your take homes?
Speaker 2 00:33:47 I really loved the sense that there's this national advocacy body that acts like a union for authors. And I felt really inspired by the, uh, the care and dedication that the ASA takes towards its members and even people who aren't members who can hop on to the site and get information.
Speaker 1 00:34:05 And that's actually something that was mentioned by Louis Allen. Who's the author of the sister's song. When I reached out to her, she said she regarded them as a Connie union that was advocating for authors, but she also mentioned that when her first agents in her contract, she asked the ASA to check that contract over and they got back to her within two days, there was no delay and she was able to sign the contract in a really efficient way and feeling confident that somebody had her back and had looked at that contract. And she also mentioned that she's always using the website for their guide, so that frequently asked questions and their author guides are used a lot as well.
Speaker 2 00:34:50 I believe there is a new superhero in town.
Speaker 1 00:34:53 Yeah. What are we calling this new superhero?
Speaker 2 00:34:56 I think new superheroes named themselves. It's miss metaphor. Oh, I love it. Which is editor Rachel Hanson. And she is about to put us through our editorial paces
Speaker 1 00:35:07 And the score Jesse, you know, is nil nil.
Speaker 2 00:35:16 I think this is rigged. Rachel. Welcome.
Speaker 4 00:35:20 Hello team. What
Speaker 1 00:35:21 Have you got for us today?
Speaker 4 00:35:24 Well, um, I thought that since I am at picking up the mantle where comma chameleon left, I thought it only right that, um, since her last quiz focused on the McCorey dictionary word of the year for 2020, um, that I would start the year with McQuarry. It's word of the year for 2021.
Speaker 2 00:35:44 Okay. Um, have you done your homework on this Georgia? Hell no. She said accusingly no danger there. Okay. He does.
Speaker 4 00:35:54 Um, so before I jump in, do either of you remember the word, which this is a trick question, do you remember the word for the year for 2020?
Speaker 2 00:36:03 There were two words and one was in a kind of a COVID section and the other one was just a regular word. Oh, one of the words was doom scrolling. I remember that.
Speaker 4 00:36:13 So Georgia you're correct. The, the, one of the words was doom scrolling and the COVID word of the year was Rona, which was code for coronavirus.
Speaker 2 00:36:23 Um, I'm going to submit a word next time, which is I've devised myself, which is apocalypse shopping, which we did a lot.
Speaker 4 00:36:31 I like that one, which is sort of similar to one of the words in the short list for 2021. Thank you for leading me in. Um, so here are your options option a rebate, which is a strategy designed to encourage customers to shop at bricks and mortar stores rather than online. So offering personalized service, pleasant surroundings, et cetera, option B is a stroll out the rollout of the COVID-19 vaccination program in Australia with reference to the perceived lack of speed or C hate follow, which is to follow a person or company on a social platform, even though you dislike or disagree with the content being shared.
Speaker 2 00:37:18 Oh, I love that story. Can you tell me the three again?
Speaker 4 00:37:22 Yeah. The first one is brick bait, a strategy designed to encourage customers to shop at bricks and mortar stores rather than online, be stroll out the rollout of the COVID-19 vaccination program in Australia with reference to the lack of speed or perceived a lack of speed and hate follow is the last option to follow a person or company on a social platform, even though you dislike or disagree with the content being shared.
Speaker 2 00:37:51 Um, well those words make me feel really Greazy. I think that's a sign of the very much a sign of the times, which I guess is the point. What do you reckon clay? I want it to be strolled out. Cause I just, I do like that term and it just speaks to Australia's typical laughing in the face of something that's quite serious. So I think stroll, that would be, that would be good. Yeah. That would be the people's favorite. Yeah. Me being on represent the people I should be representing marketing. I should have chosen brick, but I'm actually going to go with hate follow because I think probably so much time was spent on social media during the, uh, the myriad lockdowns that, uh, I would, may have been devised to describe that.
Speaker 1 00:38:44 All right. How are we going to go,
Speaker 4 00:38:46 Claire? The point is yours. So exactly right. It was the word of the year. Um, particularly because it reflects a story and love of rye wordplay. Um, I think it's definitely a marker of our time and how we're trying to move into the next phase of the pandemic. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:39:07 I think there should be another word I'm, I'm all for coining a few more scroll out, which is where you just stop scrolling.
Speaker 1 00:39:15 I like that where you just take your mouse and you,
Speaker 4 00:39:19 Well, there were some others, um, on the shortlist that I loved, one of them being a porch pirate so that somebody who steals packages delivered to your home on your front porch, I went visual. When I saw that word, it's thinking someone in their pirate costumes spearing a package on the sword and sputtering,
Speaker 2 00:39:36 It's a very noble name for a very shifty practice.
Speaker 4 00:39:42 There were a few others that were sort of COVID adjacent type words. So one of them that I loved was range anxiety. So what they're talking about is the stress experienced by a driver of an electric vehicle when they aren't sure if they're going to make it to their destination or recharge points, which I think is not fair related to the pandemic at all, but only indicative of where we're heading. Um, in terms of climate change, which is big on the calendar this past year.
Speaker 2 00:40:11 Um, I guess I almost assume that you were making some of those words up,
Speaker 4 00:40:15 What they do is that they're going into the general lexicon. Um, they have to, they have a committee, first of all, they have a committee of, of expert to word experts who are looking into these words and looking into the general vernacular. Um, but there's also a people's choice, um, section as well. So it's open to everyone to vote. This was the second time that the committee's choice when it was the same as the people's choice winner. And
Speaker 1 00:40:41 When do they decide on this winter as the committee ranked?
Speaker 4 00:40:44 I don't know whenever they want. I was curious, um, as I was looking at these word winners to see how those words have held up over time. So what winner, what winning words are still used? Um, so in 2006, which was the inaugural year of the Macquarie dictionary word of year, uh, the word winner muffin top
Speaker 1 00:41:14 Surely that stood the test of time
Speaker 4 00:41:17 I had had, I don't know what was happening in 2006, that muffin top one, but it's definitely still used. Um, interestingly in 2007, the committee choice word was pod slurping, which is, uh, the downloading of large quantities of data to an MP3 player or memory stick from a computer
Speaker 1 00:41:42 That has been hold
Speaker 4 00:41:43 Up. But the people, the people's choice winner for 2007, the inaugural year for that one was password fatigue.
Speaker 1 00:41:52 Yeah. That stood up that laid down. That's a constant, isn't it? Password fatigue.
Speaker 4 00:42:01 And then, you know, just five years ago in 2016, the committee choice winner was fake news. I think that one's definitely held up. Where's the people's choice winner was halal snack pack, which I don't think we hear as often
Speaker 1 00:42:15 I heard amongst the youth, my youth. Hmm. Well, this has been delightful. Miss metaphor.
Speaker 4 00:42:23 It's wonderful to talk to you both see you next
Speaker 1 00:42:25 Time. What's coming up next time, Claire, next time we have Judith Lucy on the podcast with us when we're really excited. So, um, I don't know about you, but I've been listening to her podcast. I've been reading her book. I've been listening to her reading her audio book and, um, lots of preparation has gone into that. Well, I want to thank you our, how to be an author listeners. We really look forward to joining you next time. As we continue to delve into the business side of being a writer, see you later. Bye. I'm off to read this Book. The songs of water. That was my Catherine Kim
