Speaker 1 00:00:12 Welcome to this special edition of the free man press podcast. Today, we are recording in wup in wad Abuja, and I would like to acknowledge and pay my respects to elders past, present and emerging. This is a place of many stories, and I'd also like to acknowledge our first nations people as the first storytellers right across Australia. My name is Helen Miroy and I really love kids books. I'm also an author and illustrator, and I love hosting this podcast because we get to talk to fabulous and interesting people about their books and their illustrations. Thank you for taking the time to join us today. Today, we have a very special guest. His name is Tyrone Wegan. He's a Wadi Noar person from the Southwest Cape country, as well as an utter Kal Torres Strait Islander. He's a multidisciplinary artist and a graphic designer and designed the 2020 NADOC poster and was also named Perth artist of the year. Welcome Tyrone.
Speaker 2 00:01:08 Hello, thank you. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:01:11 Okay, so maybe we'll start off with a little bit about, uh, getting to know you a little bit better. So where, where did you grow up? You've obviously got a bit of mixed heritage there, but where did you grow up?
Speaker 2 00:01:21 Around Frio? Born in, um, water hospital. Um Freemantle and then yeah, grew up in the surrounding suburbs, mostly white valley.
Speaker 1 00:01:30 You're a real local then.
Speaker 2 00:01:31 Absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:01:34 You interested in illustrating then where did that come from?
Speaker 2 00:01:39 Um, I think I've always just love drawing. Like it's just something that I've always used to be able to use as an escape a little bit. Um, and then it's always been a fascination how well someone can create, and then I just wanted to recreate that I guess, or do it in my own way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:01:55 Yeah. So Tyrone did, were you a kid that sort of was always grabbing pencils and drawing wherever you could and you know, you probably had all your textbooks, all illustrated with little, little characters down the side. Are these gonna be famous, famous illustrations as you get more popular? <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:02:10 Hopefully, but we'll say <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:02:12 I bet your mum's keeping all your old books, is she?
Speaker 2 00:02:15 Yeah. Yeah. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:02:17 So what, is there a sort of creative process that you go through when you are thinking about what you might be trying to design or create? What's that like for you?
Speaker 2 00:02:26 I'm a pretty straightforward creative, I think, um, you know, I don't need to sit outside to fill the breeze and then paint something. I just get into it. Um, yeah, I've always like drawing of scenarios. I find it easier and illustrating based on things. I often get my scenario brief, whatever it may be, then I'll do, um, I might do a bit of research first, then I'll do rough line work and then I'll refine that and then I'll do my final line work from there. I'll block in color. And then after that, I'll do my details. Shading highlights lowlights.
Speaker 1 00:02:55 So that's quite a structured process. Do, do you have the picture first in terms of what it's gonna look like at the end? Or is it, is it developed along the way?
Speaker 2 00:03:04 It's a bit of both. I think, um, sometimes I have this really strong concept of like, yes, this is the simple and easiest way I'm gonna draw this and this is gonna be the most effective, but sometimes especially now I'm kind of pushing it and I'm wanting like more Ang sweeping angles in my scenery and stuff like this, um, deeper and more technical, like for shortening in things. So it's going a little bit more into the process stuff and technical stuff for me. So yeah, I, I don't always have a clear vision of what it's gonna look like and it's sometimes it's about piecing it together. Yeah. And like almost carving it out. Really. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:03:38 How do you know when it's finished? Do you get to a point where you go that's enough or do you wanna keep going back over and over and over as we often do,
Speaker 2 00:03:46 Sometimes I do look at a P and I'm like, yes. That's if I add anything else to it, it's gonna be ruined. And, but most of the times I just kind of get bored of my art and looking at it and I think, all right, I need to stop. It's it's gone too far.
Speaker 1 00:03:58 <laugh> gotta let it go. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:04:00 Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:04:02 One of the things that a lot of people talk about when they're in that creative space is, is when they then have to hand it over to someone and get the feedback. How do you go with that? What's that like for you?
Speaker 2 00:04:13 Yeah, it's hard because sometimes feedback is, is like good, but then it was just so passionate about it. It's hard not to get angry sometimes, but, um,
Speaker 1 00:04:22 So, so how do you get through that process? Cuz I think that can be really quite difficult. Can't you can end up getting into an adversarial sort of situation with the person you're trying to create something for, how do you get through that? What do you do?
Speaker 2 00:04:34 I think I just try and take a step back and see it from their perspective. Um, especially through a lot of the stuff is what I do is design, so it needs to be the best outcome and I always need to be referring back to the brief and you know, is it hitting the brief? Is it hitting the audience? Is it that the best or is it just their opinion or is it just my opinion? We need to be thinking about who's this for and what's the right direction it's heading in.
Speaker 1 00:04:56 Yeah. So you can't get too stuck in the minute detail. You have to take that bigger picture approach.
Speaker 2 00:05:02 Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:05:04 So what do you think that you want people to see in your illustrations, particularly say the illustrations you did for the two kids books? What's the message in your visual storytelling,
Speaker 2 00:05:15 It's humor and fun, but then also like quite technical illustrations that someone's worked really hard on <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:05:22 So there's a beauty in the illustrations to be respected, but also something that perhaps excites the child or the family into wanting to read more.
Speaker 2 00:05:30 Yeah, absolutely something that's yeah. Really simple. And everyone can understand in a way, but yeah, I, I love, you know, humor and making things fun and funny and just small ways. I think it's just easily digested. Um, even these kind of big topics that sometimes we delve into something's a little bit funny. It's just easier to take it all in
Speaker 1 00:05:52 Say with the kids' books. Um, I thought they were both are beautifully illustrated. How long would it take you to do a page or an illustration for something like that?
Speaker 2 00:06:02 Ooh, it, it usually takes me about a day or half a day to do a scene where I find, um, if it's just a character it's about, uh, couple hours and depends if it's also, um, traditional or, um, you know, mixed media, digital is obviously quicker, you know, eraser tools, command Z is always there, but yeah. Um, you're drawing in heavy black ink. You make a mistake, you gotta start again. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:06:26 I don't think people realize actually how much effort goes into building. Some of these illustrations up from scratch.
Speaker 2 00:06:31 People often are little bit disillusioned with, um, how hard it is to actually do these things. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:06:38 Yep. So with your career path so far, have you had any setbacks, are there times when you thought, oh, this industry's really a bit difficult and it's hard going?
Speaker 2 00:06:48 Yeah. So, um, I think it's just more around self-doubt and then when things kind of move slow for you or there isn't movement when I was fresh outta uni, I just, you know, tried to get exposure for myself and then, well, you know, six, 12 months rolled by and there was really nothing for me. So, um, ended up working at an engineering company, doing odd stuff, almost being just a utility. And then things like slowly started picking up for me and, um, working as a graphic designer at places. And then when I, when the NADOC post over that kind of ignited my career, so to speak after I won it, I had all this work that I've already been kind of doing. It was like success off that. It's just kind of self-doubt, that's kind of stopping you, I guess if you just keep chipping away, you know?
Speaker 1 00:07:32 Yeah. How did you get over that self-doubt is it just a matter of keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing, or
Speaker 2 00:07:38 It was kind of being more unfulfilled where I was at in my like job and life situation. It was like, I really don't want to be doing this. And it was kind of hitting a point of like, well, you've got nothing else to lose. Why are you not trying this?
Speaker 1 00:07:54 And combining that passion with your work obviously is a much better way to then have a career isn't it than something that you get feel like you've been trapped in. Yeah. Yeah. So what are you currently working on
Speaker 2 00:08:04 Per children's hospital? I'm doing some window art for them. I'm doing some stuff with Freeman art center. I'm got an exhibition coming up towards the end of the year. I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say about that, but yeah, it should be good <laugh> but um, yeah, there's a few things I'm working on background. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:08:22 Tyrone, tell us a little bit about how your cultural background being both, uh, Aboriginal here from, um, country as well as, uh, the Torres Strait, how that may have influenced the way that you create things.
Speaker 2 00:08:35 It's had a pretty big influence on me. I think the reason why I'm an artist is because of my heritage, like growing up, people were always doing artwork somewhere on something. Um, you know, some people painted to sell it and so other people were just decorating walls and stuff. Um, it was also like a strange way to pass the time as well. Like just being creative. Yeah. And it's also kind of driven my fascination into art, especially my stra artist side, because I don't know much about it. I just know I am, um, sub Islander, like, you know, trying to find out bits and pieces and recreating those pieces and trying to dive deeper into those stories where I can access them. Yeah. It's absolutely like centric to what I do now, even though I might not always do specifically indigenous art
Speaker 1 00:09:23 Sounds like it's almost like a way of life.
Speaker 2 00:09:27 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's a way that I've kind of learned parts of my culture and retain knowledge and I can then share it, but
Speaker 1 00:09:34 Yeah, it's certainly a beautiful way to transmit culture across generations. Isn't it? Through artwork and visual storytelling and all of those sorts of things.
Speaker 2 00:09:43 Yes.
Speaker 1 00:09:44 What do you think is the best thing for you personally that you've got out of doing this kind of creative work?
Speaker 2 00:09:50 Just kind of, um, kind of personal growth, I guess, thinking to when you don't have much of a career in illustration and then you're doing picture books and, you know, people making a fuss about it, especially with the <inaudible> language book, you know, creating a resource like that is just amazing. Um, you know, it's just a, a privilege to be able to be a part of something like that. And especially for myself, not knowing too many N our words and then going through this book and picking up more and more.
Speaker 1 00:10:17 So you learned a lot yourself during that process.
Speaker 2 00:10:19 Yeah, absolutely. Learn some more and probably integrate some more into my own, um, vocabulary and
Speaker 1 00:10:24 Sounds like that was a real win-win. So I think all of us need support and, and help sometimes to get through difficult times. Who's been your biggest supporter. Do you think that's helped you get through?
Speaker 2 00:10:36 Probably my parents, my mom, um, you know, just tailor me to just keep going, just keep working hard. Um, never going, this is silly, not what you're doing and they're just believe in me, people from the arts community have almost gone out their way as well to support me and just been really invested in my career thus far. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:10:55 Do you think that belief that your parents had in you helped you overcome some of yourself down?
Speaker 2 00:11:00 My mom's always kind of been a big believer in, you know, if you put your mind to anything you work hard at, you just overcome everything you need to, and you get where you need to go. One thing I've learned from that is just respecting the process too. Just, um, keep pushing, keep going, um, and just remember why you're doing something.
Speaker 1 00:11:17 So have some beliefs, some self-confidence and keep going and it will happen. Is there anything you would've done differently looking back over your career so far?
Speaker 2 00:11:27 Not really. I think if I could've, I would've started a little bit earlier just to help gain exposure. So there wouldn't have been that Lu after I had left uni of like, uh, no one knows who I am or what I'm doing. I wish that when I started uni, I would've started getting exposure as well. But, um, yeah, you, you know, exposure's really hard to get and, um, work on really
Speaker 1 00:11:47 <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. And what tips would you give to budding writers or illustrators?
Speaker 2 00:11:53 Yeah, just keep working hard on your work. If something, if something's not looking like you want it to, it will eventually just, um, you know, keep developing your star, keep working on your technique, be kind of brave in what you're trying to, um, express as well. You know, don't just draw things. You can continually draw, draw things you can as well.
Speaker 1 00:12:13 And have you got a tip for looking after yourself in all of this? What what's, what's the big, what's the thing that you've done for yourself? That's kept you going
Speaker 2 00:12:21 Just passion. I guess that's kept me going to sheer passion, hard work and desire to do what I want to do and have some type of freedom in my life.
Speaker 1 00:12:31 A lot of people have talked about when they're in that creative space, they just like to be locked away in their studio or wherever their creative space is. And they forget sometimes to get out into the real world. What's that like for you?
Speaker 2 00:12:42 I'm not in my studio at the moment, but yeah, I do lock myself away, um, for very long hours and it is kind of weird seeing a world outside of what you're creating and what's in front of you, even though I'm a very introverted person. I do try and stay connected to other people, friends and like social stuff. Um, just for health.
Speaker 1 00:13:01 I bet you, some people just come and get you and say, that's enough, we're taking you out. <laugh> yeah. So Tyrone, the Noah language book that you illustrated is a pretty amazing book. Would that have made a difference to you as a kid growing up if you'd had that resource?
Speaker 2 00:13:18 I think so. Um, I've always kind of struggled to place myself as like, like define my Aboriginality because a lot of the things you engage with, especially when I was little was kind of this very traditional idea of being Aboriginal. It's like, well, I know that's part of our culture, but it's like, I've never danced. I've never worn these things. Um, you know, is it right for me to even be learning this language? Um, because I don't meet what's in the books. Um, so that was pretty important for me to show us as contemporary living people, not something that's, um, been in the past, so yeah.
Speaker 1 00:13:53 Hmm. That's sort of stereotyping perhaps that a lot of kids might get put upon them when in actual fact they're in the, in the modern world,
Speaker 2 00:14:00 The traditional elements of our culture have a place and they're definitely important, but there's not that end all and be all of us, especially today, especially for kids living in suburbia.
Speaker 1 00:14:10 And it's important, I think for kids to be able to see themselves in books and see their culture and language represented. So I imagine that might help them have that stronger identity. What do you think?
Speaker 2 00:14:19 Um, yeah, absolutely. Hopefully, um, you know, language is integral to identity as we time and time again. No. Um, so hopefully, yeah, they can start integrating <inaudible> words into their everyday vocabulary and something that they can do with their parents as well. Um, you know, as generations that don't have that language and never really been exposed to it,
Speaker 1 00:14:38 The picture book that you also illustrated has both <inaudible> language and then English as the translation, I thought that was a really unique way to represent both languages as well. So it's accessible to everybody.
Speaker 2 00:14:51 People around here is first language is generally English and they either have some type of pretext to learn off, but it'd be cool if this book kind of influences everyone around here and you know, we start speaking <inaudible> and it's like, everyone knows they're from the Southwest because you're speaking Nunga around here. But yeah,
Speaker 1 00:15:07 <laugh>, it'd be pretty cool. Wouldn't it?
Speaker 2 00:15:09 Yeah. Yeah. That'd be awesome. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:15:11 How important is it? Do you think that Noar is taught in schools?
Speaker 2 00:15:14 I think it's pretty crucial. You know, it's the language of this land it's ingrained here should be taught, especially in terms of developing culture, not for just Aboriginal or Noar kids, but for everyone, um, you know, if you go to France, you'd learn French, you know, <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:15:31 That's exactly right. And in fact, if long ass not taught here where it actually comes from, then it can't really be taught elsewhere. Canada. It's gotta come from the, the mother earth where it actually is originated.
Speaker 2 00:15:42 Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:15:43 Well, listeners, you can find Tyrone's beautifully illustrated books in all good books, stores and
[email protected]. If you enjoyed our chat today, subscribe to the Freeman press podcast on apple podcast, Google play, SoundCloud, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. My name is Helen Miro and I have been your host today. Join me next time as we continue our journey into everything books.
